Prosperity Gospel?
May 31st, 2006 · Posted in Uncategorized ·
Last night after bible study we ended up having a discussion about tithing (giving 10% of your income to the church) and whether Christians should do it or not. It came about after one of the guys talked to a friend who came from a church that pushed tithing. Hard.
My view on the subject is this: We don’t have to do it, but it is an appropriate response to God providing us with a church. The church (locally in this instance) needs money to run, to pay the ministers, to help fund missionaries and charities, and it can’t get this money without asking for it (well, some churches I know of buy properties and rent them out, but that only acts as a supplement, not a primary income).
If everyone at pretty much any church in Australia gave 10% of their income (net income, I don’t count the money that is taken from my pay in tax - it was never my money 
) to their local church, I think we would see a major shift in the view of the church. There would be huge amounts of money for charity work, probably enough to make a real dent in poverty and homelessness. We could pay for our pastors (and not just them, anyone who needs it) to get further training. We could make sure that everyone who wanted a bible could have one. For free.
It would make a huge difference.
But most christians just give what’s left in their wallets at the end of the week. It’s not wrong, but it’s sad. I think that your church should be an extension of your family, and we don’t/shouldn’t treat our families stingily. I think it is often a lack of trust that convinces people that they shouldn’t give large sums of money away. They need it for themselves and their families. Which could be true, but usually isn’t.
22Then Jesus said to his disciples: “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. 23Life is more than food, and the body more than clothes. 24Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds! 25Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life? 26Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest?
27“Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you, not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 28If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today, and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, how much more will he clothe you, O you of little faith! 29And do not set your heart on what you will eat or drink; do not worry about it. 30For the pagan world runs after all such things, and your Father knows that you need them. 31But seek his kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well.
If you haven’t guessed, Jen and I tithe what we earn. It was something my parents taught me to do from a young age. Mum always said that if I couldn’t afford to tithe now, and I said I would do it when I earned more money, that I would never do it. I think my mum is very wise. If we can trust God with what little we have, he will give us plenty more (that we should then use for his benefit).
I guess what prompted this little sermon is that in the mail today we got a letter from the Australian Government telling us they had underpayed us our family tax benefit for this year, and so they were giving us a further $1,300. Which is pretty much exactly how much it will cost for us to pay for registration and insurance on the car, which we weren’t sure if we would be able to afford without dipping into our savings this year. God always seems to drop money on us when we need it, hopefully we will be good stewards when we get more money too.
RodeoClown: doesn’t have to stress over where the money will come from.
Update: I have bumped this up after posting it on 10,000 words
November 25th, 2005 at 8:01 am
A few thoughts….
1) I miss Bible study with you guys!!
2) I agree that tithing 10% (after tax!!) is a really important thing to do. I/we have tried to do it fairly regulary for the last few years.
It was a story that my friend told me that changed my mind about tithing, he siad that there wasa period in his parent’s life when they were short on money and even though they didn’t have much they still continued to tithe and God bought them through that period and restored their financial well being. Which leads me to my next point……
3) You can tithe 10% of ANYTHING!! Your mum (she is a great lady) was right, God doesn’t want us to tithe at least $X. He wants us to tithe 10%. Whether that is 10% of our first pay chek for $50 or 10% of our first full time pay cheque. It is not about the $$$ it is about the attitude and the CHOICE to tithe. The sooner that we make that choice and get into that habit the better.
4)On a personal note, Lisa and I have regularly tithed since we got married and we have never had any financial problems (…..yet, THANK GOD). This is an endorsement of God’s goodness to US rather than me looking for any personal praise about how religious I am.
5)My final thought is more of a rhetorical question (with no offence intended, mate.) Do we need to tithe monetety gifts that we recieve? Eg, money for a birthday, wedding, Christmas, tax refund, interest from the bank. I believe the answer is yes. This is just my opinion and I am happy to hear others thoughts on it.
Love the website!!
Keep up the good stuff!
D!
Dez! Thinks Tithing is a FANTASTIC idea
November 25th, 2005 at 8:13 am
I thought for a second there you meant that we had to give %10… but then I realised what you meant.
“God bought them through…” nice pun (even though I’m pretty sure it was unintended :))
As to your last question, I’m not sure. I’d assume yes, but I generally do anyway. It’s not something I’m hugely stressing over, we give to charities too, which I see as being in the same boat, and so I figure it all rounds out. Again, I think it’s your attitude rather than the actual amount you do. If you forget one week/month, I doubt God will smite you on the spot.
I also think that it’s good practice to tithe with real money, rather than through teh internets (where I do most of my financial dealings) because even though direct debit means you never forget to do it, it also means you never decide to do it either. It just happens automatically and so you never think about it.
I don’t think it’s bad, but I think doing it with intent is better.
Hmmm, long comments on this one I think.
November 25th, 2005 at 8:26 am
I used the word it far too frequently in that last response. I need to be more specific about it.
(sorry)
November 25th, 2005 at 4:51 pm
Here’s an insight into how few people are tithing: I would estimate there to be somewhere in the range of 200-400 people between the four services at my church. Yet, every year, we are struggling to meet the budget, the majority of which goes towards paying wages for the three or four staff members. If everyone were giving 10%, we should, theoretically, be able to employ 1 staff worker for every 10 in the congregation, which would be 20 to 40, instead of three or four. (Not that this would necessarily be the best thing to do with such money - it’s just a comparison.) Not that tithing is a thing that people must be doing, but I think your Mum (and mine, who said the same thing) was definitely right - people who don’t get in the habit at the ground floor never get in the habit.
November 25th, 2005 at 6:10 pm
That sounds about right.
I think one thing Hillsong et al have going for them is the fact that they can employ loads of workers and spend plenty on marketing etc.
I wish our church had the problem of too much money. I’m sure we’d come up with some very productive uses for it. There’s plenty of people who need help, and more workers at the church means more needs being met.
On the other hand though, churches with too much money can turn people off as they start to feel very commercial. I think the best balance is to spend the money on workers, as much as you can on mission/charity work and only after those things are taken care of do you start spending loads of money on advertising/making the church building ‘cool’ etc (not that churches shouldn’t do marketing, I really think they should, but I think that we can do it within a sensible budget).
November 25th, 2005 at 6:12 pm
Oh, and for the 1 staff member for every 9 or 10 in the congregation - I actually think you’d be able to afford more than that, as most church workers don’t demand excessive wages, whereas there are plenty of people in the church who earn a metric butt-load of cash each year.
November 27th, 2005 at 11:13 am
Oooh, tithing. A riveting topic. I get a bit of an inside scoop on it since I work at my church (part-time, in their children’s ministry).
Believe it or not, go to an average church and look at the scores of people who show up regularly each and every Sunday. Consider them the church’s “members” (ignoring, for a moment, the parameters that different churches have for actual membership). Then consider that, in America, the average church has only about 4% of these regular members actually tithing 10% on a consistent basis.
Blimey. That’s a lot of people going to church for free.
It’s not that I’m trying to seem callous, mean, or greedy, but tithing is just right, on any level. Even when you consider church not on any spiritual level but as a service rendered – consider it similar to a 1-hour massage for your spiritual well-being – we’re not paying the church nearly enough. (We pay more for Yoga class than we do for church!)
Gah, I hate desensitizing the REAL REASON we go to churches and the REAL REASON we should give our money to churches, but looking at this from any angle clearly exemplifies how selfish and individualistic we as Americans (or Australians, or any first-world country’s citizen) are.
November 29th, 2005 at 1:04 pm
Daniel, I liked your ‘going to church for free’ phrasing. It often feels like so many people turn up to only get stuff out of the church. Get their spiritual fix for the week and then leave, without giving anything back.
Church is a community, not a building, and as Christians we should be involved in the whole of church, not just rocking up on a Sunday and then walking out feeling self-satisfied.
November 29th, 2005 at 1:41 pm
That’s exactly right… church is a community, a fellowship – not a building. Truly (and ideally), we should/would all be playing our part in this community.
And, let’s not forget, getting blessed tenfold by God’s bountiful joy in our fellowship.
November 29th, 2005 at 2:02 pm
When you remember the blessings, don’t forget the persecution that comes with it (same verse :)). However, with a loving community around you, you will be far more able to stand the persecution.
So it’s a win-lose-win situation :).
December 14th, 2005 at 8:34 pm
consider this from Mark 12: 41-43
Consider a tithe based on your taxable income (this is closer to what you earn - it only excludes what it costs to earn the rest)
In really God loves the cheerful giver.
In answer to Callum - a tithe can be of anything. It can include time. I know of people to literally have only enough $$$ for the rent and a megre feed for the week. They give in time to the church - by doing things that others get paid for, by ministry work. I know of one person who gave most of their waking hours to helping those less fortunate (and some better off) than her.
It is in the heart.
And yes Ian, if only 50% of those in church tithed, the world would not know what hit it.
Another thing to consider: we have 24 hours a day - do we give God 2.4 hours? - I fail;
but its worth a thought
December 15th, 2005 at 7:45 am
Thanks for that Dad, I think I agree with you completely on this one
Also: I edited your post to make the formatting a little better.
December 21st, 2005 at 2:39 pm
Hi mate. I’ve been perusing your blog re: tithing. I just wanted to add a couple of thoughts about tithing.
Tithing was not designed by God to help Him. God does not need our help. He is, after all, the Creator of the whole universe. God does not need our money.
I believe tithing is a discipline we employ (as suggested by God) to teach us a little about how God thinks - and most of all - to teach us to act like God (the BEST example we can have).
Tithing is for our personal benefit. It teaches us to give, and above all, to give first - just as God gave His only son for us.
Tithing is for the benefit of our fellow-Christians. We do not live in a vacuum. We do not all earn lots of money. It is important for us to support the “infrastructure” which occurs as a result of Christian activity. We do not have all things in common. We should be looking out for our brothers and sisters in Christ. Tithing teaches us to be aware of our Christian family.
A tithe is different from an offering. A tithe is the first, foremost and basic requirement of giving. An offering is what you give over and above your tithe.
I’m proud of you, Ian, that you tithe faithfully. God will bless you for your faithfulness. He has already blessed you with wisdom - which far exceeds your tender years, and an insight into His great love for all mankind. Love you. Mum
May 17th, 2006 at 3:54 am
Tithing is not a requirement.
It is all Gods.
Tithing is the Old Testament Law, Hence there is no reference to it being a requirement after Christs Death.
The New Testaments talks of Offerings.
We have the Holy Spirit to guide us, with all things.
May 17th, 2006 at 6:42 am
Hi Rod,
I don’t think that anyone was arguing that tithing is a requirement.
I think that it is rude to go to a church regularly (not ‘just visiting’) and to not contribute to that church’s ministry financially.
If we want our churches to be able to function, giving them money is pretty much essential.
10% is just a handy number that was established back in the OT.
Thanks for commenting btw
May 31st, 2006 at 3:06 pm
Love it - thanks for the encouragement Rodeo
May 31st, 2006 at 3:21 pm
That was well written. Thanks for those thoughts.
I think your mum sounds like a very wise woman.
May 31st, 2006 at 3:25 pm
She is pretty wise
Pretty great Mum.
June 1st, 2006 at 2:53 pm
Firstly, there’s a disturbing lack of biblical references in most of the comments.
Interesting you should bring this up, as we had a talk on it just this last Sunday.
Look at the tithing commandment in the OT (Deuteronomy 12:6-7): “6 there bring your burnt offerings and sacrifices, your tithes and special gifts, what you have vowed to give and your freewill offerings, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks. 7 There, in the presence of the LORD your God, you and your families shall eat and shall rejoice in everything you have put your hand to, because the LORD your God has blessed you.”
What does it actually say to do with your tithe? EAT IT. Yes, you eat your tithe. Weird, huh?
June 1st, 2006 at 3:00 pm
I don’t think I’d be too quick to eat my cash… wouldn’t digest too well I don’t think.
I think tithing is no longer commanded, so it is up to the individual as to how much to give - for that reason, bible references aren’t necessary, although there are references that are appropriate in discussing how we spend our money.
How would you take the eating thing?
June 2nd, 2006 at 2:41 pm
There’s definitely a few NT references that apply.
As for the eating of the tithe thing, I just take the whole idea of a ‘tithe’ as part of the whole OT Law issue. It’s a very similar idea to ritual sacrifices, and so should apply to us just as much as they do - i.e. not much at all. Interestingly, the passage I quoted comes *directly* after “do not cook a goat in its mother’s milk”.
Don’t hear me saying we’re not called to give, but I think the whole tithe thing is (or at least should be) unrelated to modern Christian giving.
June 2nd, 2006 at 3:03 pm
I think I’m agreeing with you throughout my whole post
We dont’t have to tithe at all, but it is a handy guide as to how much to give to our churches. I’m definitely not saying that we have to give 10% to our church, but that if we did there would be a huge difference in it operated.
I don’t think we should be legalistic about it at all, but a whole bunch of people seem to just give the church their leftover change as more of an after-thought rather than contributing a significant amount (again, not talking about people who can’t afford it, I’m talking about 7-bedroom, 3-car families with widescreen TVs for everyone and their dog).
June 5th, 2006 at 6:32 pm
Just remembered the conclusion to last week’s sermon about tithing. It was that some famous Christian (I think it was Wesley) resolved to only maintain his standard of living no matter how much he was earning. Thus, he learnt to live on (e.g.) 20 pounds when he was earning 24 pounds and so when he was earning 48 pounds the next year and then 96 the next year and then well over 100 pounds the next year, he continued to spend only 20 pounds on himself, giving the rest away. His motto was…
.. with more money at hand, we should increase our standard of GIVING rather than our standard of LIVING.
That’s a VERY challenging idea.
June 6th, 2006 at 5:48 am
I’d heard that before somewhere.
It is a great challenge. Definitely something to consider. Thanks for the reminder.